Interview: William Yeh, President, SogoInvest
July 14th, 2006 by Grant in: Brokers, Business, Interviews, Investing
David Houle’s post on Sogo Invest and how they have cut commissions by eliminating the middle man sparked my interest, and I was fortunate enough to land an exclusive interview with Sogo Invest President, William Yeh.
My first reaction is that Mr. Yeh is very much in tune with what the every day investor wants in an online trading brokerage platform: low prices, ease of use and great service.
The following is a summarized transcript of our conversation:
Grant: Mr. Yeh, you’ve got a solid background in the brokerage industry with the development of Genesis Securities, LLC and the Laser trading platform. Tell me a little about the Laser platform.
William: My history is in trading futures, and I believe in utilizing automation and electronics to remove the human hands from trading, making the whole financial process as fluid as possible. That’s why we created the Laser system.
We developed the Laser trading platform to interact directly with the markets, and in turn we eliminated the need to buy information from a third party. We get all of our data directly from the NYSE and the NASDAQ. We also clear our own trades, eliminating yet another third party.
The Laser system was developed for the professional trader, and it has retained a Platinum rating from the NASDAQ. Other trading platforms such as E*Trade have a Silver rating.
Grant: You’ve got great technology for the professional trader, and you trade between 2-4% of the daily volume on the NASDAQ. What inspired you to develop Sogo Invest?
William: We really developed Sogo Invest for the simple, every day trader. While the Laser system is used primarily for the professional trader, we are taking that technology and putting into Sogo Invest.
Grant:Â How can Sogo Invest undercut the rest of the online brokerage markets in terms of commissions and fees?
William: Since we buy our own data directly from the NASDAQ and the NYSE and we clear our own trades, we’ve eliminated many of our third party costs. We pass these savings directly on to our customer. We could raise our commissions to $10, $8, or $6, and enjoy a larger profit, but we want to pass these savings on to the customer to get more people to join us, and more importantly stay with us.
The large amount of volume we clear every day also helps keep costs down, based on the economy of scale.
Our price speaks loudly, but service is also key.
Grant: Does Sogo Invest have its own dedicated customer service team, or are you relying on Genesis for that support?
William: Our customer service is well established with Genesis, but Sogo Invest does have it’s own dedicated customer service department. Our customer service staff will answer in four rings or less.
We have created online video tours of many of the processes and features, but you can always call us. During the last few days since we took Sogo Invest public, the response has been overwhelming, but we didn’t overload our phones. I think this is mostly in part to keeping everything easy and providing good online video tours and support.
Grant: What is your philosophy with Sogo Invest?
William: I asked my self, “Why do I want to be part of the crowd? There will be another William Yeh that will come along and charge less than the other guy”. It’s really all about adding value for the people, and the technology opens up frictionless trading.
I believe people should invest for the long term, taking advantage of dollar cost averaging and compounding from the markets. The ability to invest in fractional shares provides added value to the customer, making it easier to invest what you can afford.
Grant:Â When will IRA accounts and mutual funds be available?
William: The majority of people are still interested in mutual funds because ETF’s are so new. We’ll offer mutual funds in the next couple of months, but IRA accounts will come first, within the next month or two, if not sooner.
Grant: Can investors open a margin account?
William:Â You can open a margin account right now as a matter of fact.
Grant: What about trading options?
William: We’ll add the ability to trade options in a few months, but IRA accounts will come first.
Grant: Does Sogo Invest provide investors the ability to take advantage of Dividend Re-Investment Programs (DRIP’s)?
William: That option is not in place yet, but it’s not out of the question. We have the technology to make it happen, it’s just whether or not the people want it. What ever makes it easier for the people. If we get a response from the people that they want something, we have it and we’ll make it available immediately.
Grant: Does Sogo Invest have some of the higher end utilities like Level II quotes, real time charts, time and sales, etc?
William: These utilities will be included in Sogo Invest, and we will not charge for them. I like to give away things for free, and since we developed and own the software, we’ll include it for free. We want to spoil the customer and win their business. What ever the people want, we will provide it.
Grant:Â I understand that customers can fund their account through automatic transfer, but can they transfer funds directly from another broker into Sogo Invest?
William: Absolutely. You just fill out the form and we take care of the rest.
Grant: Will Sogo Invest users have the ability to set stops: limit stops, trailing stops, etc?
William: We have stops, but they’re more for professional traders and I’m not sure that’s something the simple trader needs or wants. However, if the people want it, we have it. It’s just whether they want it or not, but we have to keep it easy.
My mantra is that “it has to be so easy my mother can do it!”
Grant: Well that about wraps up all my questions, thank you for your time and good luck with Sogo Invest!
William:Â Thank you, Grant, and call or email me any time with questions.
Â
Additional Information:
Sogo Invest Website
Genesis Securities Website
Sogo Invest Press Release (pdf)
Wall Street Journal Article (pdf)
CNN Money Article
Sogo Invest Comparison
I’ll have more thoughts on Sogo Invest and how they stand up to the rest of the online brokerage market in future posts.
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July 14th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
Great interview. I’ll give a Sogo Invest a closer look! Wil
July 14th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
He’s got a good thing going, and it definitely seems like its geared more toward the conservative investor. I noticed that there is a 5k share maximum per order, and everything over that is an additional 0.005/share.
Also, I can’t believe he’s not offering the DRIP right up front. Seems like that kind of program would be ideal for long term investors who want to just funnel dividends right back into the market. Bryan
July 14th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
[…] Earlier this week I made a post on William Yeh, a man who personifies disintermediation, in this case the final step of disintermediation in the stock brokerage business. Since that time, people have asked me about why he could do what he is doing, how he could stay in business with prices that are more than 50% lower that all the ‘low cost’ brokers. Mr. Yeh gave an interview to a fellow blogger, Grant and his blog the other day. I just read it and recommend it to those who have a curiosity about how William Yeh could take such a bold action. […]
July 15th, 2006 at 10:53 am
I have made a slight correction to the transcript, I made mention that E*Trade retains a “Gold” rating from the NASDAQ, and it actually holds a “Silver” rating.
Genesis Securities is the only company with order-entry software rated as “Platinum”, and there is not a Gold rating in the scale.
To see the full listings, click here.
Thank you William for correcting me!
-Grant
July 18th, 2006 at 12:53 pm
Great interview! I’m not much of a trader but this gives me a different perspective on the industry. Let me check out the site!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Thanks Kay, be sure to post your thoughts on Sogo Invest (either good or bad!) after you check out the site.
-Grant
July 18th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Nice interview. From my perspective, it seems that Sogo Invest is better suited for the buy and hold crowd rather than “traders”.
I’m not sure I like the 5,000 share cap on the $3 commission, but I suppose for most people this is not an issue. I like the fact that they eliminate the market makers, which means my orders should be executed more efficiently.
I’ll keep an eye on Sogo and see how they play out in the brokerage market. ~Nova~
July 20th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
Nice interview. $3 trades are definitely worth looking into.
July 20th, 2006 at 2:02 pm
I like the idea of using a deep discount broker for one trading style, and using a higher end broker for another style.
I’ve got two different portfolios, one is a buy and hold, the other a swing trading portfolio. I also dabble in the micro-cap stuff, but not heavily.
Cap
July 21st, 2006 at 3:17 pm
I emailed questions to Sogoinvest a week ago, and a week later, I still haven’t received a response. I called their phone number this morning almost an hour after their posted opening time on their website, and, contrary to the interview’s claims of answering the phone within 4 rings and not having overloaded phones, I was not able to reach a person.
I called later, and I did talk to a person. Although polite, they did not know the answers to my questions. I was transferred to two more people, and the final person said that, contrary to the interview, they do not have stop orders, yet. The developers are working on it, and they hope to have them by the end of the year. While you can use ACH to electronically transfer money from your checking account to Sogoinveset, your only options to get your money back are by check (free) or wire transfer (currently $20). Don’t forget to send in a signature form and a copy of a photo ID, or they won’t release your money.
If you are the type of person who
1. wants to regularly invest a little each month
2. wants it automatically taken out of your checking account
3. wants to invest in a specific stock instead of a mutual fund
4. isn’t concerned about the rise or fall in the price of the stock
5. is not very interested in being a trader
6. won’t need the cash quickly
then Sogoinvest is probably a good way to go.
If you are the type of person who
1. makes lots of trades
2. doesn’t want to be tied to a minimum investment
3. watches stock like a hawk so that you can sell on your own without a stop or trailing stop
then you might like Sogoinvest. There are other sites on the Internet were you can trade for less (e.g., half a cent per share), but they require a $2,000 investment or more. If you have the money, it might be worthwhile to look elsewhere.
If you aren’t one of those people, then Sogoinvest looks half baked. They don’t have the minimal features I would expect in order to do the most basic trading. This more of a savings-account-invested-in-stocks operation. I’m sticking with Scottrade for now, and I’ll keep my eye on Sogoinvest to see if they have something better to offer down the road, including Roth IRA accounts and trading options.
mose
July 21st, 2006 at 3:34 pm
mose,
Great write up, and thanks for contributing your experience.
I will forward your experience on to Mr. Yeh, as your customer service experience is something I’m sure he’ll want to know about. If appropriate, I’ll post his response.
I agree that it seems a bit awkward that the ACH transfer isn’t a two way street. In keeping with his mantra to keep it simple, it would cut down on a lot of processing time and paperwork to be able to transfer OUT your funds as well.
To clarify the part about the stops and limit orders (I spoke with Mr. Yeh about this after I wrote the interview), he said they have the capability to implement the functionality into Sogo Invest, they just haven’t done it yet as they don’t know if it’s something people need. In other words, they have it all figured out because they’ve done it already with their high-end Genesis platform, they just need to code it in to the Sogo Invest platform.
Anyway, thanks again for your feedback, and I’ll drop you an email with Mr. Yeh’s response.
Grant
July 24th, 2006 at 8:26 am
Mose, this is the reply from Mr. Yeh:
I would like to answer to the questions:
For customer’s protection, in order to release money especailly by wire, we want to know the person requesting the money is indeed the account holder, and that is why we want to have a signature card on file.
We have the stop order. We are waiting to see if there is enough people requesting it before releasing it on Sogo.
This is what I said in the interview.
The phones should be picked up within 4 rings.
The e-mail should be responded quickly.
I’m looking into it.
We will keep on adding more and more features to Sogoinvest.
I will keep you posted on the progress.
Regards,
William Yeh
July 29th, 2006 at 7:32 pm
The following are stopping me from signing up with Sogoinvest:
a) no ACH-out, not only is it troublesome to have to call in to get money out, investors also lose the interest when the check is in the mail and not yet cashed (already mentioned earlier),
b) a wait of three days before money submitted by the ACH system is available for trading (according to feedback on the FW forum); other brokers let you trade with the money the same day you submit the ACH.
August 15th, 2006 at 10:04 am
I want to feedback to your readers that while the per trade costs might be low, they need to be aware of the unconventional way Sogoinvest treats your money deposits and margin interest. These are what I gather from my emails with their customer service:
1) If you bought a security on margin, margin interest accrues on day T+1. This is very unlike most other brokerages which start charging margin interest only on day T+3, the settlement date.
2) When you submit a ACH into Sogoinvest on day T, you money gets deducted on day T+1 from your bank BUT the money will take another 3 more days before it posts to yout Sogoinvest account, i.e. on day T+4. I specifically asked whether any interest is earned and the answer is no. So, Sogoinvest dinks you of three days’ interest whenever you perform an ACH in.
The above amounts might be small but in principle, I dislike companies that think customers are fools and can tolerate unfair practices.
I document some of my additional comments in my blog HERE.
August 20th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
Thanks for the update, fundfan!
It appears that Sogo Invest has a few things to work out to make them competitive in the market, but from looking at your blog, it seems the orders are filled quickly and in some cases at a lower price than your limit order.
I agree with your notion that interest should be accrued the day it is drawn into the account, however there are a few middle men that take their processing time, so I’m not sure Sogo Invest is to blame for the slow ACH time (although they could, I just don’t know).
Thanks for your comments!
-Grant
August 21st, 2006 at 3:12 pm
Hi Grant,
Regarding the ACH, I don’t think it is the middlemen issue. When I first sogo asked about the ACH delay, their reply was
“we process ACH over the course of two dates to protect both ourselves and our users from fraud” — implying they have the money in their account.
(I have saved copies of all their replies in case they delete the replies in my account)
That was on 8/10/05. At that time, their customer service also says the timeline is
Day 1: submit ACH
Day 2: bank debited
Day 3: credit posted
I could accept that timeline and so I started investing with sogo.
Subsequently, they changed their policy to lengthen the delay. Now it is
Day 1: submit ACH
Day 2: bank debited
Day 5: credit posted
At the same time, I also found out that they start charging margin interest on day t+1, even before the trade settles.
Now, I have an ACH transfer which was debited from my bank on 8/16 (to pay for a trade that settles on 8/17) and is still not credited as of today 8/21. In the meantime, they are presumbly merrily charging me margin interest at 9.5%. This is simply unfair.
So I have stopped additional investments with sogo and I am watching to see if enough feedback will make sogo revise its policy. Otherwise, I will be doing an ACAT out real soon, before sogo starts charging for ACAT too.
PS. Just a long shot, since you managed to have an interview with their president, is it possible to feedback this to him?
August 21st, 2006 at 5:31 pm
Thanks for the additional thoughts, fundfan.
I will definitely feed this entire discussion on to William, as I’m sure he wants to know about this kind of stuff. If I get a reply from him, I’ll be sure to post it.
I agree with you, funds should be posted to the account as soon as possible, and I think there is enough protection in place (on the bank side and through the ACH transfer process) that an additional lag should not be required.
-Grant
August 22nd, 2006 at 11:13 am
Yeah, the “fraud prevention” reason cited is just a lame excuse to earn interest on the float at the clients’ expense. Many financial institutions can make do without this 3-day delay, including companies like Ameritrade, Etrade, Fidelity, Vanguard, GMACBank, VirtualBank, EmigrantDirect, just to name a few that I know of that do not impose a 3-day ACH delay.
August 22nd, 2006 at 8:03 pm
fundfan, I agree there are more transparent companies out there.
However, I just ran across this today: I deposited a check from my employer last Saturday into my checking account. However, the check hasn’t cleared yet, and I still don’t have access to my funds, a full two business days later.
On the other hand, if I wrote you a check and you went and cashed it today, the funds would be withdrawn from MY account by tomorrow morning at the latest.
I guess it helps not to think about the lost 0.04% interest for three days…
-Grant
August 23rd, 2006 at 12:15 am
You must have deposited a large check. I deposit checks at the local Citibank branch and I have seen sums as large as 10k available immediately. Larger sums (>10k) take a maximum of 5 business days (this is for California).
In this regard, Citibank is one of the best and Citibank has my business for this reason. At most other banks, including BOA which I used to have an active account, they usually hold up to 10 or 12 business for large checks.
At Sogoinvest, the interest I lose is at 9.5% (margin interest rate) since I had assumed I can ACH-in the money to settle a trade. But Sogoinvest changed the rules mid-way and I am caught in the bait.
August 26th, 2006 at 7:52 am
FundFan, I did receive a reply from William on your ACH and margin interest concerns. Looks like you had some influence on changes.
————————-
From William Yeh,
We do understand that the ACH process is currently longer than common industry practice; this was a temporary situation, until we developed a method to shorten the process while maintaining account security, which is now in place. The reason we had a longer period was to prevent funds from being transferred erroneously, in order to protect customers from fraud. Typical ACH processing times do range from 1 to 5 days, depending on the brokerage in question.
Effective immediately, SogoInvest has instituted a new bank account verification policy. Two small deposits are made to each bank account that is entered on our website, which are then viewed by customers in their bank accounts. Once the customer verifies the deposit amount on Sogoinvest.com, we can be reasonably sure the account is secure, and can therefore shorten the ACH process for that individual.
Very soon, the ACH time frame will be shortened to one or two business days for verified accounts.
With regards to margin interest, various brokers have different policies regarding when the margin is charged. Some charge the margin upon settlement (T+3), while others charge immediately, as soon as the funds are actually borrowed. Currently, SogoInvest imposes a margin charge upon the borrowed date. When compared to other brokerages that do have a T+3 policy, it should be noted that our margin charges are noticeably less.
SogoInvest is working very hard to provide our customers with the maximum value possible when it comes to all fees and commissions. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me and the SogoInvest team at info@sogoinvest.com.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
That is why I didn’t open an account. I have Sharebuilder and I thought (buying on Tuesdays) if Sogoinvest I can’t invest my money any faster with Sogoinvest because it takes 5 days to even get the money there and also 1 days to buy if their automated buys. So I thought if I make $500. on Friday in my business and I want to buy with Sogo it would take me ACTUALLY the Next , Next Monday (1 week and 1 day)to buy my ETF’s. So I decided that with Sharebuilder I could invest my money into the market faster ,with Sharebuilder even if I had to wait till Tuesdays to buy.(plus Sharebuilder even pays 4.25% while I wait the 3 days).
August 27th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
Vacman, that’s true, but it appears that Sogo is making some changes in the way they handle transfers.
It appears they’re going to do it like many others (paypal, etc) have done and it’s pretty easy to do once you’re “verified”.
I’d like to see them follow through with these changes, and see how people react to them.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Grant
August 28th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Hi Grant,
Thanks for following up with the questions and alerting me to Sogoinvest’s reply.
It is encouraging to see Sogoinvest responding to the comments, and hopefully they will update their ACH timeline (it is still the old timeline when I checked this morning).
However, I don’t quite buy the margin interest argument since technically, the money is not borrowed until Sogoinvest has to settle the trade. Maybe Sogoinvest also credits the money the next day on a sale — I haven’t tried asking that question. If this is so, (I am thinking aloud) why not just stick to the industry practice?
I also suggest that Sogoinvest puts the unconventional way it calculates margin interest somewhere in their FAQ. Most people are not amused when they find out they are charged interest differently from what they expected.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
Thanks Grant , I’ll wait and see. I like everything about Sogoinvest . I wish we knew how many accounts they have but they won’t even give us a estimate. (to see if anybody is really using them). Why did they go to 5 days ACH transfers ? Call them on the phone and ALSO E-mail them and you’ll get two different answers on that question. Foliofn did the same thing to their accounts and now the only way you can get new money to your account at Foliofn is to send a CHECK only. Hopefully they won’t follow Foliofn ways.
August 28th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
FundFan, I agree, it’s great to see a company respond to suggestions with open arms. According to William, they are working on their ACH system.
I also agree with your points on the interest issue, but to put it loosely, “their ball, their rules”. You would think, however, that deposits would be immediate, and you’d start drawing interest immediately as well.
Vacman, I’d like to see their account numbers too, just to see how well they’ve done in such a short period of time.
I think they’re still in a very fluid development stage, which means their policies and practices change quite frequently. As such, you may get different stories from different channels. Only speculation on my part though.
-Grant
August 28th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
Grant,
You are absolutely right on the “their ball, their rules”. That’s why I am providing feedback and waiting out for some time. If the rules are not changed and I still don’t like them, I will take my business elsewhere.
August 29th, 2006 at 7:22 am
That’s the beauty of free commerce. If you don’t like their rules, you play elsewhere.
With so many players on the field, I think Sogo Invest needs to provide superior service in all aspects of the game, and that includes providing superior treatment of interest schedules.
Thanks for the feedback, by the way, I know William appreciates it, and I think it’s constructive criticism that accommodates change.
-Grant
August 30th, 2006 at 1:10 am
For anyone interested, HERE’s my comparison of Sogoinvest with Ameritrade Izone.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Thanks indexfundfan, I copied your Izone and Sogoinvest comparison chart thanks for your effort. I don’t like that Sogo has many different answers to my questions.!!!!(dif Rep with dif answers). I hope they will get it together. I MAY tranfer my Scottrade account to them if I knew they would treat me as well as Scottrade has. Scottrade has been good and very honest with me so far and NEVER screwed up anything as of 8/31/2006(ha,ha,) thanks for your responses indexfundfan and Grant also!!! Vacman
September 1st, 2006 at 1:50 am
vacman, I’m glad you found the table useful and took the trouble to provide feedback.
By the way, it is official now. Upon logon tonight, I noticed I have been charged margin interest at Sogoinvest due to their unusual way of calculating margin interest and delayed posting of ACH-in funds. I was still half hoping that the CSR made a mistake when I asked them how margin interest is charged.
The statement is however not out yet; I will try to figure out the details later when it comes out.
September 1st, 2006 at 7:36 am
Good info guys. Since Sogo is so new, I think I’d give it time before I throw them to the curb completely.
I also think it’s important to remember that Sogo was (at least from my observations) created for the less savvy investor. Those who don’t buy on margin, and really don’t care about ACH timeliness. However, as I mentioned before, if they want YOUR business, they need to keep YOU happy. Since ACH transfers affect every account holder, not just margin traders, they need to at least be competitive with the rest of the players in the game.
I still view Sogo as an investors platform, not a traders platform. Mostly based on my conversations with William Yeh.
-Grant
September 1st, 2006 at 8:44 am
Grant, I see what you are saying. Less savvy investors are easier to fleece; while savvy investors would not accept these practices.
BTW, I am not a trader. I had originally intended to use Sogoinvest to accumulate ETFs.
September 2nd, 2006 at 10:45 pm
I don’t know I’d say that Sogo Invest is trying to fleece unsavvy investors, but those that have some experience with how other platforms and brokerages work will definitely be turned off by how they handle margin and ACH (especially ACH as it applies to ALL investors).
I rarely buy on margin, so how they handle the interest really doesn’t bother me too much. But having to wait a week before I can use my money does.
I still think Sogo is a good buy and hold brokerage, but they’ve definitely got some bugs to work out, as all new endeavors do.
-Grant
September 3rd, 2006 at 5:15 pm
Grant and Indexfundfan, I’ve been investing for 10 years now and I have never used a margin. If we don’t have the money to buy a stock don’t borrow to buy it, it may bite you. So Sogoinvest would fit me just fine because I don’t BORROW to buy. I know that someone will say I made alot of money using margins but I know of some that GOT into trouble as well. STAY AWAY FROM BORROWING TO BUY STOCKS. Wait till we have the money then we’ll go buy a good quality stock.I don’t think SOGO is out to fleece anybody. I think they are REALLY wanting to start and get a good business going and then try to sell it to a bigger brokerage house.(that is where people make $40,000,000. in 2 or 3 years).That’s what will happen eventually!!!! I really like their platform but I feel more at easy with my current brokerage. Have a good weekend Grant and Indexfundfan. Vacman
September 3rd, 2006 at 7:39 pm
I agree completely, Vacman.
It takes a lot of discipline to buy stocks on margin. A lack of discipline will cause you to lose your shorts, and then some. I’ve gone short only once, which forces you to “buy” with borrowed money. While I think there is definitely money to be made with this philosophy, it takes a completely different outlook on the market to be successful.
Also, remember that Sogo Invest is owned by a parent company in Genesis Securities, which IS a high end brokerage house. So there’s really no chance in Sogo Invest being bought out by anyone. Why would Genesis Securities want to see Sogo Invest be bought by their competition.
What’s more, the technology implemented in Sogo Invest was developed by Genesis.
The nice thing is that if you get to the point that you WANT a bigger brokerage house, Genesis Securities is the next step.
So I agree, Sogo is not out to fleece anyone, and they have the best of intentions. I think their primary focus is on the long term buy and hold investor who doesn’t want to watch their portfolio every single day.
Have a great holiday weekend to you!
-Grant
September 3rd, 2006 at 9:32 pm
To Grant , I never thought about Genesis Sec. before(I keep thinking they are separate company) You are Prob. right, they aren’t likely to get bought out!!!! Do you remember Freetrade.com (owned my Ameritrade) Freetrade.com was opened for a year or so and your could trade 20 times a month for FREE(I think it was 20 trades ?)and after they got alot of accounts they closed down and moved them all over to IZONE .(owned by Ameritrade).Maybe they are thinking that way.? I STILL wonder WHY all other brokers can’t trade for $3.00 also!!!!!(they can but will not likely happen) If we owned Sogoinvest, we would say to ourselves, HEY, If Sharebuilder can get 1,250,000 account using a only Tuesday buys for $4.00 dollars a trade surely we can get alot of account ,allowing our customer to buy for $3.00 dollars a trade AND BUY EVERYDAY ???? If Sogoinvest makes it ,Sogo will get alot of Sharebuilder accounts because Sharebuilder customers really don’t like to wait till Tuesday to make a trade.(but they have to to get the $4.00 trade) 90% of Sharebuilder customers do buy on the Tuesday because that is the only day it is $4.00 a trade. NOW if Sharebuilder would go to another day to trade(like Tues and Thurs) Sogoinvest probl. wouldn’t get any of their customers. I really hope that Sogoinvest will make it because it will be good for them and US. All Brokers will have to adjust their Trade cost !!!! Have a GOOD Monday Grant,- Vacman
September 3rd, 2006 at 9:39 pm
Vacman, remember that the direct link with Genesis has it’s benefits. Genesis executes it’s trades directly with the NASDAQ and NYSE, eliminating the middle man that brokers like Ameritrade and such have to go through. This is why brokerages like Ameritrade offer higher commissions: they have to go through a middle man to buy and sell shares with the market.
Additionally, Genesis is it’s own clearing house, eliminating yet another middle man.
So Sogo Invest has a direct advantage over other low-cost brokerages due to the relationship with Genesis.
-Grant
September 3rd, 2006 at 9:41 pm
Holy cow, what a great dialog you guys have going on sogo investor! Do the peoplle at sogo really read this blog?
September 3rd, 2006 at 10:48 pm
Grant , Do we really know how much we are saving by them going direct to the market (by-passing the middleman) .05 a share? On $10,000. dollars it may, may a difference! But for the average investor like us we are prob. only saving .50 cents or so on a trade(unless we trade 100,000 shares of options). Hey Ralph, We are just talking about a new brokerage company called SOGOinvest. Join in if you like. Grant ,is there a way to find out how much of the spread that the middleman would receive for the trade? I’m not as advance as you are, probably , so I’m not up on these issues. If Sogo cost us $3.00 a trade on 50 shares of WAG we are prob. only giving up .50 cents.(on $2,500 value trade) Grant, do you have any thoughts on how much we are really saving by using discount brokers (like SOGO)that are having a direct clearing firm in their back pocket?- Vacman
September 4th, 2006 at 8:08 am
Unfortunately I can’t quantify how much Sogo Invest saves by clearing their own trades, etc.
All I know is that when I asked William Yeh, President of Sogo Invest, how he could offer $3 trades when nearly everyone else was higher, his remark was that his overhead was lower due to the direct link to the NASDAQ and NYSE, along with the fact that they clear their own trades.
Ralph, please feel free to join in if you have any questions! Yes, the people (although I don’t know exactly who) at Sogo Invest do read this blog post.
-Grant
September 5th, 2006 at 10:24 am
Hey, you guys misunderstood how I use margin. I don’t borrow to buy stocks/ETF. Let me explain how I use margin at Ameritrade Izone.
Normally, I don’t keep a cash balance at Izone because of the low interest rate for cash balances. But when I need to buy an ETF, I just purchase it on the day I want “using margin”. But NO MONEY IS ACTUALLY BORROWED yet until the trade settles in day T+3. I would ACH the money into Izone by day T+3, and there is never any margin interest charged. Like Vacman, I would not borrow to buy a stock.
With this strategy:
1) My cash continues to work hard for me in a money market account at ~5%, not at Izone’s ~1% or Sogoinvest ~2%.
2) I can buy stocks/ETFs whenever I want without keeping money in the discount brokerage and earning miserable interest.
Don’t you guys want to keep your money earning at 5% before it is invested?
As I said before, Sogoinvest is the only brokerage that starts charging margin interest on the trade date (not settlement date). It does not work for me (for now).
September 5th, 2006 at 12:25 pm
Thanks for clarifying, and it appears you have a good system worked out. I can see where, using your methodology, you’d be concerned about margin.
As for me, the amount of free cash alotted for trading is never significant enough to even worry about interest as it applies to cash in my trading account.
I usually have a couple thousand in reserve, and the interest on that amount does not amount to much. In addition, if I ever decide I have excess cash, I invest it into high yield ETF’s or trusts like PVX, PGH, etc, earning at or above 10%.
However, the larger the number you play with in your cash account, the more important interest becomes.
-Grant
September 5th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
Grant, BTW which broker do you use?
September 5th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
Indexfundfan, I’m at another brokerage company, they won’t let us do that like you do.(I LIKE THE IDEA,THOUGH) I never thought of doing that before but that is a good way to do it.($3,000 at 5% is $1.23 for the three days) It really makes your trade cost go down -1.23 per trade. Yes I (like you indfdfn want my money growing even for 3 days) really have fun learning info. from Grant and Indexfundfan, thanks for letting me pick your brains and thoughts. I can see that SOGOinvest wouldn’t work for you(or me) if they are going to charge margin % on the 3 days. I better get to work Guys. Both of you have a good week, talk to you guys next weekend . Vacman
September 5th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
I currently use Ameritrade for most of my trading. I’ve thought about dabbling with Sogo Invest, but I need to rework some things in my portfolio before I can jump in.
As I have said, Sogo is not for everyone, and neither is Ameritrade. But I think there are aspects of Sogo Invest that could fit in to trading strategies.
-Grant
September 5th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
By the way, thanks for the continued discussion!
September 5th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
Vacman, are you with Scotrade? I could be wrong but I am quite sure they settle their trade at day T+3. What you need is to convert your account to a margin account and then make sure you move the funds for the trade to them by day T+3. Call Scotrade and ask them, specifically on 1) when is a trade settled, 2) when does margin interest start accruing and 3) when will funds moved to them be credited to your account. My mistake with Sogoinvest is that I failed to ask them these three questions specifically, and wrongly assumed that Sogoinvest follows industry conventions.
September 6th, 2006 at 10:54 pm
Indexfundfan, Yes I’m with Scottrade, and yes you are correct on ScottradeT+3 days. thanks , I’m checking on this issue thursday about converting my account over to margin for that reasons you said 2 days ago.(you got me to thinking,Thanks) I can see that I’m going to have a problem. Scottrade as of today(9/6/06) still doesn’t have a way to transfer money yet!!!! You have to send a check in the mail before you can buy stocks. You have to have the money in the account before you can buy. I’ll check on the margin issue Thursday so I think I would have 3 days to get the money there. Thanks, Indexfundfan….. I E-mailed Sogoinvest 9/4/06 and still haven’t got a response yet. They may TRY to answer the phones in 4 rings but their E-mails a lot of the time never get a answered. I E-mailed SOGO 3 weeks ago and still haven’t got anything back yet!!! I decided to erase my history I figure they won’t answer it after 3 weeks.I still wonder if they are really interested in customer service or interested in building a Web-site. So far I’m not very impressed with their responses. I wonder if what would happen to me if I REALLY needed help with an issue on my account!!!! My response would think they would re-act the same way.(NO-RESPONSE) that’s what I’m leeeeeeery about new brokerages. bye-Vacman
September 8th, 2006 at 8:22 am
As of today 9/8/2006 Sogo hasn’t anwered my e-mail yet! Been 4 days so far.I may have to call . Vacman
September 8th, 2006 at 5:41 pm
Hey guys, I received an “official response” from Sogo Invest management concerning the issues related to how they handle margin. I have pasted it below:
————–
We at SogoInvest very much appreciate all customer feedback, whether sent to us directly or posted in the blogosphere. With this post, we would like to address the issue of margin interest.
SogoInvest policy has always been to charge margin interest when the funds are actually borrowed upon settlement. Typically, a trade is settled in 3 days from trade date (T+3).
All interest credits and debits are charged together, on the last day of the month, and are visible on the SogoInvest statement, which is available early the following month.
We will also shortly be releasing an update to our ACH timeline.
Our intention is to make the funds available for investing and trading when the client’s money hits the account.
If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please feel free to contact us via email, secure message center, or phone.
Regards,
SogoInvest Management
September 8th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
[…] Check out the post and the discussion. […]
September 8th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
Grant , thanks for the info. Vacman
September 9th, 2006 at 8:36 am
It’s encouraging to see that Sogoinvest has chosen to respond to the margin interest issue. It appears that Sogoinvest is changing its policy. See
http://indexfundfan.wordpress.com/2006/08/12/sogoinvest-experience-update/
where I posted Sogoinvest’s reply when I asked about them about their margin interest policy. I also called them and was told the same thing. If they changed their policy, I just wished that they would say so instead of saying
“SogoInvest policy has always been to charge margin interest when the funds are actually borrowed upon settlement. Typically, a trade is settled in 3 days from trade date (T+3).”
When I logon today, I saw a link to the August statement but nothing happens when I click on it. What gives? (I tried with both Firefox and IE).
When I get the statement, I will check to see if margin interest only accrues on day T+3 and report back. If this is true, I would be happy to revise my blog comparing Sogoinvest with Izone, as well as post another update on this issue.
Could Sogoinvest comment whether ACH-in money that is “held in escrow” can be used to offset margin interest? For example, if I have a $5000 margin but also $5000 held in escrow, do I pay margin interest on the $5000 margin?
If Sogoinvest’s new margin interest policy is what they said and their ACH timeline is revised successfully, I would be glad to send them more business.
Thanks.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:30 am
If Sogo went T+3 on margin interest accrual date, I’d swap accounts now.
But I won’t unless/until they do.
Also, I assume Sogo will not be implementing streaming quotes?
Good discussion everyone. Thanks for the 411.
September 11th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
As of today(Monday 9/11/06) I still haven’t heard back from Sogoinvest Yet!!! It’s now been a week since I E-mailed Sogo. What I did was sent Sogoinvest ,Scottrade and Sharebuilder an E-mail (all within 20 mins.) to see which brokerage came through the fastest. SHAREBUILDER came in 1st.(1 day) Sogoinvest AND Scottrade still haven’t come through yet. Sharebuilder with over 1.2 million accounts still had the time to get back with me. That’s what I like to see!!!!(Just in case I really need them they’ll be there for answers when needed) I know there is a phone near by!!! You can really see where a brokerage’s weak point is when you deal with them alot, but with e-mails and phones, are 100% important to an account when the company is 850 miles away from my house. Then e-mail’s and phones are the most important to us, as online investors!! Vacman
September 11th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
P.S. I’m not saying that Sharebuilder is the best ,either,but they are right up there with the best brokerage’s on how well they handle things. Vacman
September 12th, 2006 at 8:57 am
I just read Sogo’s “official response” above and I am glad to see they are paying attention to what everyone has to say. When a new company charges less for their services than the already established competitor, I expect the same quality if not better and so far Sogo seems to be keeping up with the challenge. I am going to test out there mentioned policy today. And I am waiting to hear about the update on the ACH timeline. Thanks for the great discussion.
September 12th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
No problem, BD. If you would, keep us updated on your experience with Sogo.
-Grant
September 14th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
[…] Sogoinvest has been reasonably receptive to client feedback. I have provided feedback to them through various channels, including emails, this blog [1] [2] and through Grant’s TheCornerOffice blog. […]
September 14th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Hi guys,
It appears that the new ACH timeline will go live tomorrow (9/15). An ACH submitted on day T will be posted on day T+2. In addition, margin interest does seem to accrue from day T+3. I posted the details HERE.
I must say I am quite impressed with Sogoinvest’s willingness to address the issues raised and I would be willing to continue more investments with them.
September 14th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
I forgot to close the quote on the link in my last post. HERE is the corrected link.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Good to hear, indexfundfan. Thanks for the update!
September 15th, 2006 at 10:56 am
Thanks indexfundfan. Your research saves me a lot of time. Things have been smooth with the site lately. It seems that your repeated efforts at addressing thier quirks has paid off. You got their attention and luckily they took it seriously. I am a fairly new trader so listening to the lingo on these blogs is like a foriegn language to me. It helps to get me up to speed though. I’ll let you guys know if I come across any issues. You seem to get fast results.
September 19th, 2006 at 10:26 am
I really like their Fractional Shares option. Not everyone has thousands of dollars to play with and this makes it possible for just about anyone to trade. I believe Sogoinvest is the only online trading site with this option. Their might be one other but I can’t recall which one. I know the big shots that also have account minimums don’t have this feature. Thanks Sogo for thinking about both the Big guy and the little guy to. Everyone should have a shot at making some extra money.
September 19th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
SM invest, The other companies are Sharebuilder.com,Mystockfund.com,Foliofn.com,Buyandhold.com and now Sogoinvest.com. They are all good companies(except one.!!!) I hope you like Sogoinvest . Let us know if you have any questions and troubles. bye for now. Vacman
September 19th, 2006 at 6:18 pm
[…] I received an update from Sogo Invest on their ACH policy. There has been a great discussion on their transfer policy in a previous post with an interview with Sogo’s President, William Yeh. […]
September 20th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
Thanks Vacman. I will keep you posted. Sharebuilder was the one I was trying to remember. I didn’t realize there were so many others.
September 20th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Hey,SM Invest and Grant, I just Emailed Sogoinvest and within 20 mins. they got back with me. THAT IS FAST RESPONSE TIME!!!!! I’m Very impressed with the latest improvement!!!! That’s what makes people want to do business with SOGO. I hope they keep it up. Remember the things we need from online brokers? After 10 days, I’m still waiting for a response from Scottrade?(and I even got an acoount with them) Maybe I’ll switch my IRA over to Sogoinvest when they come out with the IRA options.Bye for now, Vacman
September 20th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Great to hear, Vacman!
September 21st, 2006 at 7:54 am
[…] Here’s a look at Sogo from MyMoneyBlog. And here’s an interview at The Corner Office Blog with William Yeh of Sogo. […]
September 21st, 2006 at 8:58 am
Sogoinvest is good but one can not open IRA, on options, no ETFs…. Anybody tested Interactivebrokers yet? IB claims they are the lowest cost firm. Agree?
September 21st, 2006 at 6:10 pm
IBFan, you’re right. However in talking with William, IRA’s are right around the corner.
Also, I’d like to see them subscribe to the D.R.I.P. philosophy. I have a couple dividend paying stocks that payout monthly, and it’s nice to have that money reinvested each month, commission free.
-Grant
September 25th, 2006 at 10:32 am
Thanks for the update Vacman. I have been making some good trades lately. One thing I love about stocks as opposed to Vegas is that if I screw up I just hold out until it rises again. It basically guaranteed to happen given the nature of the market.
Anyway, glad to see Sogo stepping their game up which seems to be a wise investment on my part. Grant you have a great thread going here. The best so far to get info on sogo from other customers just like me. Do you think they will make an official statemant soon about upcoming improvements or additions on the site? Keep us informed and keep up the the good work.
And thanks brightinvesting for the link to a new post about sogo. I am always interested to see what others have to say about them.
September 25th, 2006 at 11:22 am
Hey Indexfundfan, Nice Blog. It really gives the whole experiance with Sogo right from the very start. You are realy keeping them in check. It is this same demand for excellence that proves a company has interests in serving its clients. Hopefully they will keep this attitude in the years to come.
September 25th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
You are realy keeping them in check.
Haha… thanks to the publicity generated, Grant’s access to the Sogoinvest’s chief, and the willingness of Sogoinvest to revise its policies, I think I can say that Sogoinvest is now a much better deal for investors. BTW, I have also resumed my investments with Sogoinvest.
There are still some of the promises that Sogoinvest needs to work on, like online ACH withdrawals, IRAs, mutual funds, etc. My wish list:
1) ability to revise limit order price in one step, not a cancel-and-resubmit.
2) acknowledge / support specific ID stock trades
September 28th, 2006 at 12:53 pm
Grant: Even Sogo does allow you to open IRAs. The cost is still much higher than IB unless you strictly use buy and hold strategy. In this new trading world, hold won’t make sense anymore. Therefore if you make a few trade every month. IB is still the lowest overall cost firm. Check and compare for youself.
October 4th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
indexfundfan,
When will sogo offer automatic dividend reinvestment
for the ETFs?
Thanks.
October 4th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
IBFan, currently you can not open a retirement account with Sogo, however it is in the works.
Jve, I don’t know when Sogo will implement the DRIP capability, but I think it would open up a whole new market.
My only two hangups with Sogo right now are the lack of retirement accounts and the lack of DRIP capability.
Does anyone have any trading experience yet with Sogo? How are they on their order executions?
-Grant
October 5th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
Hey everyone, I’ve been in touch with the folks at Sogo, and they reassure me that they are still working on both retirement account and DRIP program capability.
Their time frame is kind of vague, as they don’t want to set a date in stone, but they said it was a near-term priority.
It’s good to hear they have new features and functionality in the cue.
-Grant
October 6th, 2006 at 9:27 am
That is great news Grant. I appreciate you being the liaison between Sogo and the Blogisphere. All I have to do is visit your site for an update. It makes my life easier. Good work.
October 6th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Grant, If Sogo does go with Div/reins, I’ll have to go ahead and open up an account. I don’t like Scottrade because of div/rein (not able) . I don’t mind paying $7.00 a trade (but if you want to rein. div. you have to pay $7.00)so to rein/vest div. you better have a dividend of $350.00 so the $7.00 won’t be more than 2% comm. cost!!!! I hope SOGO keeps improving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vacman .
October 6th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
No problem guys. I’m actually quite impressed with Sogo, even though I don’t have an account.
I told their management that once they get Roth IRA accounts and the DRIP capability, they’ll get (ALL) my business. It’ll be a no brainer.
I would like to hear from someone who has an account that can comment on execution times and such…
Keep checking in, as I’ll keep in touch with the folks at Sogo.
-Grant
October 9th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
I have an account since August and I am one of those who complained a lot to them
Now I am quite happy with them.
Anyway, the few times I bought ETFs (all limit orders), I am quite satisfied, either getting my limit price at the market asking price or better. Incidentally, I already made a post on this:
Yet another post on Sogoinvest
October 11th, 2006 at 5:56 am
Has anybody tried Zecco.com yet? Good ,bad etc.?Why? Etc. Thanks , Vacman
October 11th, 2006 at 11:31 am
Vacman, I looked at them a few months ago, and in my own personal opinion, they weren’t transparent enough in their business structure/plan to send them all my business.
I like Sogo because they’re tied directly to Genesis, which has been in the brokerage business for a long time. Consequently, Genesis has a lot to lose if Sogo doesn’t make it… At least more than Zecco has to lose.
Jonathan has written a post on the subject which has spurred good discussion on his blog:
Zecco Feature Review
-Grant
October 11th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
Grant, I’m like you. If i had to choose between Sogo and Zecco I would go with Sogoinvest for the SAME reasons you said. thanks for the attachment also!Vacman
October 11th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
No problem, vacman.
October 12th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
Grant, go to indexfundfan web-site and read my last note about Zecco. I think it’s at, indextown.com???(i think) Vacman
October 15th, 2006 at 11:40 am
I’m just reading this for the first time now, I notice there are comments saying sogo does not offer ACH out, but their FAQ says they do (under Funding Q&A), although there is a very weird restriction:
* Funds deposited into your SogoInvest account via electronic transfer can only be withdrawn via electronic transfer to the same bank account if the deposited funds have been in your SogoInvest account for less than 60 days.
So is this ACH out capability new? If so it’s a step in the right direction, although I wish they’d lift that restriction. I guess you could register two bank accounts with them and use one to deposit and one to withdraw but that’s a bit of a hassle.
Also I notice some comments saying you need to call them to withdraw, but the FAQ only mentions needing to mail or fax the appropriate form (which would depend on your method of withdrawal). So do you still need to call in to withdraw?
October 15th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Brim, Everything has changed on the Sogoinvest ACH program within the last 10 days or so. ( they didn’t have ach out until lately,I think))They are really trying their best on this issue! If you are thinking about opening an account with Sogo I think they will try as hard as anybody else if you have a problem. Yes, you HAD to call them in the past to get money out. Maybe Indexfundfan or Grant have a more curremt answer for this one. Let us know if you have any insight with Sogoinvest. I’m thinking about opening up an account with them.Brim have a great weekend! Vacman
October 25th, 2006 at 1:29 pm
[…]  In an interview Yeh gave to fellow blogger Grant, he made it clear that he felt the day trader and the average investor should be given the low cost opportunities available to institutional investors. He was clear in that interview that he hoped to have people with Sogo over the long term to take advantage of low cost investing, and that for the new or smaller trader he would provide easy purchase of fractional shares. In a conversation I was fortunate to have with Yeh he explained to me that, based upon stock exchange and clearing costs, any trading fee lower than $1.00 would be a money loser. […]
October 25th, 2006 at 2:14 pm
I just found this post from a link on
this site. Very interesting thread you guys have going on here. It is strange how everything connects in the blogisphere. I read one post and it leads to all of these others through a tunnel of blogs that has some sort of fluidity to it. I never even heard of Sogoinvest or this blog. Strange how ones search ends up. I wonder what other links on this thread lead to. The journey continues.
October 25th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
Rachael, thanks for the comments and for contributing.
That IS a beauty of a blog, you can connect it to the rest of the blogosphere how ever you choose!
Check back frequently!
-Grant
October 26th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
I have been w/ Sogo for a couple of months.
Good things:
1) Good execution time (except for two trades this past Monday)
2) Decent features
Annoying things:
1) 90 day $1 trial period is from the day you sign up online, not from the day you start trading. I thought that it would be from the time I sent in my forms to formally complete my sign-up process. $3/trade isn’t bad, though, but I’ll check out Zecco b/c $0/trade is better than $3/trade. Not saying I’ll switch, though.
2) From Grant’s initial interviews w/ the President (and from a few questions the past couple of months), the features of Roth IRA accounts and options are past schedule. Not cool!
October 26th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
Thanks for posting, Greg.
I agree, Roth IRA is a big factor in getting people to sign up.
Let me know what you think about Zecco. I’m not crazy about them, and quite frankly, I feel you get what you pay for, and you get NOTHING for free (regarding 0$/trade…).
-Grant
October 28th, 2006 at 10:06 am
Hello everybody, I wouldn’t try Zecco.com . Go over to their blog and read some of their blog. One guys is trying to show them that $600.oo is missing from his balance! He faxed his account history to prove that he should have $600.00 more and they said” everything is right”. They are having troubles with transfering ach’s. One guy after 16 days is still waiting for his deposit. If I would open an account I would go with Sogoinvest than Zecco! Reasons: 1. they seem to be really trying on every issue. #2.they are newer than Zecco #3. They do respond to their e-mails. #4.they do change their policy if customers demand changes.#5.They are owned by a bigger brokerage name.#6.$3.00 trade cost is almost free(over the whole year your total trade cost may only be $50.00 ,almost free,) I DON’T HAVE AN ACOOUNT WITH SOGO but IF I would need an brokerage account I would give them a try. They do seem like they are really giving their brokerage business a GOOD start. I think that there are better brokers out there but if you want almost free trades I would go with SOgo.Vacman
October 28th, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Great report, thanks VacMan.
Grant
November 7th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
when they will offer GTC order and short sell?
November 13th, 2006 at 9:53 am
This is a long thread. Is anyone who has posted a comment still reading it? it seems like you all had a nice exchange here. How is everyone feeling now about Sogoinvest’s service? BTW grant, nice work on keeping up with this giant blog. It must demand a decent amount of attention.
November 13th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
[…] William was more than receptive to the response generated from my initial interview post, and it appears that customer requests have not been taken lightly! […]
November 15th, 2006 at 11:01 am
The problem I see with Zecco is their management. If you go to their website and read the bios of their management, not all of them mention what college they attended. This leads me to think that many of them did not attend college. In this day and age, that bothers me. Also, who did list their college did not attend any top ranked schools.
December 22nd, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Nice interview. Unfortunately, having personal experience with SoGo Invest the last 4 months, I would warn anyone interested in trying it to proceed with EXTREME CAUTION.
My experience was terrible bordering on complete hell… not only was the account opening and funding process harrowing, but the trades were poorly executed. I have access to both a Scottrade account and a TDAmeritrade account, and did a comparison test. I placed the same limit orders through all three accounts for different stocks in different sectors on different days. On average, Scottrade executed with the best price, Ameritrade executed at limit, and SoGo expires without executing. The lack of “good til cancel” orders is a small drawback relative to their complete incompetence. Customer service is hellacious at best, although of the dozen or so representatives I’ve spoken to, there were two that actually gave me SOME level of help (although not nearly as much as was needed - excuses range from “the only person who handles that is on vacation” to “everyone is out to lunch”). What’s worst, the security of my files are in question, while talking to one customer service representative, I actually heard her walk somewhere, open a file cabnet to pull my paper file (in order to check my eligibility for electronic withdraw), bringing me to question whether my file (including my SSN) is safe or just widely accessable by random customer service representatives. Closing the account was an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE. I tried for over TWO months to exact all my funds.
I started out with electronic transfer, but that totally failed. They have all the appropriate forms, but never transferred my money and could not tell me why they were unable to execute the request. After nearly a month, all communications ceased from SoGo on the matter.
Next I tried paper check as the next option, and after another 6 weeks, half a dozen calls (which no one ever answers, I had to call Genesis to get someone), e-mails, and faxes, I finally got a check today.
I am not alone in my experience… I had made the unfortunate mistake of telling all my friends about this SoGo, and they all had problems of similar magnitude. It’s possible that over time they will get better, but I gotta say… go with Zecco… $0 trade, much better technology and slightly better customer service wins my vote. For the best customer service and best execution, I’d still go with Scottrade.
December 22nd, 2006 at 7:38 pm
Thanks for the feedback, Sogo-NoGo.
From the vast number of people I’ve corresponded with over the past few months, I can tell you that you are in the vast minority of people who have had problems with Sogo.
As evidenced by this lengthy thread of comments, Sogo did have their teething problems from the start as all companies do, however the seem to be very receptive to shareholder feedback and comments.
While I’m not discounting your experience, I can tell you that from my experience your case is not the norm.
-Grant
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:22 am
Sogo-Nogo, I see that in addition to my site, you have also added your feedback here. Besides your case, it seems like there is at least one more case of complaint with funds withdrawal that I am aware off.
Personally, I have not tried withdrawing money but I intend to try this out very soon when I receive the cash dividends from VWO. For a start, I have shot Sogoinvest an email asking them to explain the statement
“Online ACH requests are coming soon” (for withdrawals)
which has appeared on their website since August. I think this feature is way past due, and I can’t imagine what excuse they could have for the inability to implement a simple feature in four FULL months.
December 26th, 2006 at 1:04 pm
[…] During this time, a few people have voiced concerns of the “hoops” that they to jump through to get their money out from the Sogoinvest account (for example, see Raj’s experience HERE and Sogo-Nogo’s experience HERE and HERE). This got me concerned since I want to know if I can make a timely ACH withdrawal whenever I need to. […]
December 29th, 2006 at 10:29 am
[…] Withdrawing money from Sogoinvest As mentioned in a previous post, a few people have voiced concerns of the “hoops” that they have to jump through to get their money out from the Sogoinvest account (for example, see Raj’s experience HERE and Sogo-Nogo’s experience HERE and HERE). […]
December 30th, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Indexfundfan and Grant. There are to many same issues with both persons reporting about withdrawing money from Sogo. I think they are the same person!(maybe)What REALLY throws a RED FLAG to me is Sogos’ response, Quote:”your check is in backlog” (Dec 23 : 23:45) If that really happened then that tells us REALLY what is currently going on at Sogo!!! Vacman
December 30th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
I’m not sure, Vacman. I hate to discredit someone’s experience, however I can tell you that this is the ONLY negative experience I’ve heard of from Sogo customers.
Since there’s no way to prove or disprove this transaction, I strongly suggest that anyone reading this thread develop their own opinion on Sogo, and not take anyones individual experience as holy.
I’m a “trust but verify” type of guy, and I suggest others do the same.
-Grant
December 30th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
I’m like you Grant , I need to see more personal experience.Show me what you can do for me and do in right!! Then and only then will I judge you on your actions. I have two different brokers and I can say that there is something wrong with each one BUT they are still do a pretty good job for my trading patterns. We need to remember the GOOD aswell as the bad for each broker then work them on their issues. I am amazed on how much people change brokers for only one reason or another.(it’s ussually only one problem why they move) I haven’t had any reason to try another broker. (Yes I thought of trying Sogo because of the trade cost(cheaper) but decided there is more THAN JUST the trade cost when doing business!)Vacman
January 12th, 2007 at 1:54 am
They(William) Said that Sogoinvest will come out with Mutual funds very soon BUT first we’ll come out (quote”within the next month or so IF not sooner” with IRA’s !!! That WAS July of 2006 . No mutual fund? No IRA’s yet. They seem to not have it all together yet!( BUT Scottrade took ONE year to just get an ACH’s up and going after they got hacked)(The Troy Co. got hacked) Vacman
February 2nd, 2007 at 1:49 am
Wonderfull Discussion!!
I am a newbie in investment (though I have some of my funds with online banks). I have been actively researching/looking for a low commision brokers where I can invest my money for higher returns. I actually started researching ameritrade, sharebuilder and e-trade and somehow I landed up sogo investment.
For the past 4 hours I have been researching reviews and feedbacks about sogo. Luckily I landup at this blog. I took the pains of going through each and every line of the blog. It is really very Interesting to go through the whole discussion.
I really like the spirit and initiatives taken by indexfunfan and Grant to convey real user problems to Sogo. The story becomes more beautifull as Sogo listens, responds and take actions based on this blog. ( I think thats what makes a business tick!!). I almost decided that I will open an account with Sogo. However, SoGo-NoGo’s feedbacks makes me think twice. I would ideally love to get back my money back as easily as it got withdrawn from my account through ACH.
The discussion started with a lot of mistrust and dissatisfaction. It went euphoric but unfortunately it looks like some concerns are yet to answered.
I am not sure whether things have changed since the last posting. I would love to hear from Grant and indexfundfan about their experience with the ACH withdrawal and the service in general.
(I am going to read their FAQ but I guess this blog give us firsthand and valuable information)
February 3rd, 2007 at 6:54 am
Hello Bish, You can also go over to indextown.com and click on “Popular Post” and also get alot of info on SOGOinvest! I hope this will help. (I use Sharebuilder for my ETF’s and Scottrade for Funds and stocks and I’m very happy with both)I hope this ref. helps. Have a good weekend !!!
February 4th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
Thanks Vacman.
February 11th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
Do not use SOGOinvest. They have terrible customer service. They make you jump through hoops to do simple things (i.e. close account). You are better off using another company that actually cares about you. DO NOT USE SOGOINVEST!
February 11th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Dan, could you elaborate on your experience?
March 12th, 2007 at 10:50 am
I have been reading the blog for a while, and the more I read the less I am inclined to open an account at Sogo. At first, the president of Sogo was very proactive at answering questions, but then he disappeared. People are not able to get their money out, and there are no answers. This is looking very bad. I mean, people are having trouble getting their money out. At their website, they give the impression of being prepared to do business. They mention Genesis, their platform, their ability to execute, but actually it loks like they should have waited before getting into this business. Not everything revolves around cheap rate. Why should I opened an account at Sogo? A company should be clear about what is going on, and responsive to clients. We are talking about peoples money…real money.
March 20th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
[…] While I understand that the delivering brokerage will tend to drag its feet when transferring your assets out, this delay looks to be too excessive. Additional links to Sogoinvest discussions [Link1] [Link2]. […]
April 28th, 2007 at 12:18 am
[…] Related links [1] [2] [3]. […]
October 15th, 2007 at 10:32 am
I opened an accout with sogoinvest in Febuary of 2007, (minimum was $0) by the time i had all the paperwork in June or july of 2007 the mimimum was $2500, but I planed to invest 5-10K so that was not a problem. The third automatic trade never generated a trade comfirmation. My view is that these low cost brokers are very automated, software handles everyting, so when something as simple as a trade confirmation goes missing it indicates that the software is not very reliable. I did contact them about the glitch and they could not explain how it happened. I will be closing my account, but according to Dan that may be difficult.
January 31st, 2008 at 9:15 am
[…] been a while since I’d heard anything from William Yeh of SogoInvest, so I thought I’d drop by the website and snoop around a bit. To my surprise, SogoInvest has […]